On April 10, 2026, Mark Hays, Associate Director for Cryptocurrency & Financial Technology at Americans for Financial Reform, sat down for a Q&A with author, actor, and now director Ben McKenzie on his new film on the crypto industry, “Everyone is Lying to You for Money.” To buy tickets to see the film, visit https://everyoneislying.com/.
Introduction
MARK: Great. Well, thank you folks so much for joining us. For those who are watching, my name is Mark Hays. I’m the associate director of cryptocurrency and fintech for Americans for Financial Reform and Demand Progress. And I’m joined today by our friend and ally Ben McKenzie who’s an actor, author, and filmmaker. He’s best known for starring roles in programs such as Gotham, Southland, and The O.C., and is also the author alongside Jacob Silverman of the book Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud. I believe he’s appeared both on Broadway and testified before Congress. Maybe that’s a coincidence. Maybe not. But in any case, we are here to talk with him about his new film, Everyone Is Lying to You for Money. Welcome, Ben.
BEN: Oh, thank you, Mark. Thanks for the great intro. Yes, not a coincidence. Showbiz and Congress—similar dynamics at play. Yeah, not too many degrees of separation there.
MARK: Well, it’s so great to connect with you.
“Our connection here goes way back.”
MARK: I’m glad to talk to you because, you know, I think our connection here goes way back. I remember when first you were writing the book with Jacob that’s tied to this movie and inspired by it, I remember you coming to our offices and chatting with me and then we had a great time hosting you for an event in DC the following year during the launch of your book which seemed really timely given the fallout from the crypto crash in 2022 and 23. But, you know, here we are four years later and things feel very, you know, Dickensian, right? “The worst of times, the best of times.” And I guess before we get into the nuts and bolts of the movie, I just wanted to ask you looking back during that timeline, what surprised you most about where you’ve come on this journey as a skeptic and observer of the crypto industry and what surprised you most about sort of the highs and lows of crypto’s role in society during that time period?
“It has been a roller coaster”
BEN: Yeah, it has been a roller coaster. I think for those of us who care about this issue and are fearful about a lack of regulation and an unregulated form of this quasi-money entering our regulated system which has enough troubles as it is. The highs and lows are high; the highs are high and the lows are low. I would say one of the highs—perhaps it’s a bit self-serving—was our event in DC with AFR: the launch of the book. The timing there was quite good as crypto had crashed at the time and a lot of folks were being prosecuted for crimes they had committed; some of them were already in jail. And I remember having conversations with fellow skeptics—there’s obviously a lot of us out there. I just happen to be the only one who’s been on TV before, so I think I get a little bit of publicity. There were a lot of differing viewpoints: some folks thought that it was going to go away forever. This was it. It was done. I remember one very seasoned skeptic making that case quite insistently. And then there were others who were very fearful that the door had not been shut on this thing regulatory-wise and who knows what the future might hold. But given how much money the crypto industry had already made at that point off of its customers, it had a lot of money to spend on influencing the political system and our legislation. I was somewhere stuck in the middle.
“I did not see Donald Trump’s embrace of cryptocurrency coming.”
BEN: I did not see Donald Trump’s embrace of cryptocurrency coming because he had previously called Bitcoin a scam as recently as 2021. That’s actually how I sort of met my co-author Jacob Silverman. He had written an article about it for Slate at the time that said even Donald Trump knows Bitcoin is a scam. And it is fascinating to watch—his embrace has brought it back from the dead and now the zombies are amongst us, I guess, to continue the metaphor.
“We’re in a bad place.”
BEN: We’re in a bad place. I’ll be blunt. We’re in a bad—overall, but specifically when it comes to crypto, they are taking apart the SEC. They expanded the cryptocurrency crime task force inside the DOJ. They passed an act called the Genius Act. It’s pretty bad. We can talk about all that in a second. So, I guess the good news is I have a fun film. It makes fun of all this and how stupid it is. A 90-minute comedy and I think people are really hungry for it. They’re really ready to call them out and we are stronger together than they are individually. I’m quite excited to be out there and to meet people who come to see the show. I’m going to as many screenings as possible to promote the movie. So I’ll be all over the country.
Now, “an aggressive political stance is everywhere.”
MARK: Your comments made me reflect. I mean, one thing we’ve said in our advocacy is that prior to 2024, a lot of people—both advocates and concerned citizens—understood some of the risks and threats of the industry and its practices that you spelled out, but either didn’t want to engage or didn’t think it was going to be central to the broader political conversation about financial justice. And now the silver lining is it’s less difficult to make that case, right? Because an aggressive political stance is everywhere. People are kind of forced to take notice and that’s a difficult challenge, but it does mean that films like yours are timely in that regard.
How is the film different from the book?
MARK: So I want to ask a bit about the movie. I’m looking forward to seeing more of it. I know it’s inspired by the book, but my understanding is you took a little bit of a different approach to the movie versus the book. Tell us a bit more about how you’ve approached this film.
BEN: Yeah, absolutely. With a book you have so much more room to explore all sorts of things and I could geek out as an econ nerd. That’s why I fell into this: I have a degree in economics and I was bored over the pandemic. In the film you obviously have to be much more judicious in terms of what you can focus on and what you can’t afford to. I wanted to keep the movie tight.
“You are plenty smart enough.”
BEN: If you tell people you’re going to see a documentary about cryptocurrency, they’re probably gonna look at you like, “what’s your interest in this?” I was worried people would feel the same way about my movie that they feel about crypto more broadly—that it seems really complicated and they don’t think they’re smart enough to understand it. I made this movie to explain: yes, you are. It is not you. It is them. You are plenty smart enough. I guarantee any AFR person watching this video is more than smart enough to understand on a fundamental level: this is bad, this is wrong, and this will not end well. I show in the film my experience going down the rabbit hole—a Michael Moore–esque, Louis Theroux–esque, first-person journey into both the stupidity of cryptocurrency and the danger of cryptocurrency.
MARK: I’ve had that experience where you bring up the topic and get divergent responses: a side-eye leading to a short conversation or an overly enthusiastic one. Aiming for an every-person approach is a good tack.
“I made the movie…for the 80+% of the country that hasn’t dabbled in cryptocurrency.”
BEN: I made the movie because only so many people will read a book—I made the movie to be popularly appealing and for the 80+% of the country that hasn’t dabbled in cryptocurrency. I don’t think anyone can convince the hardcore converted, but for the rest of us it behooves us to educate ourselves and each other because it can have ramifications, particularly as it integrates into the rest of the economy. It’s really made to be a piece of popular entertainment.
Are “the rules, regulations, and oversight are crafted in a way that undermine confidence and stability for the rest of us?”
MARK: One of our biggest concerns in the advocacy front is not so much the degree to which crypto itself creates problems for individuals—that’s a real problem—but whether the rules, regulations, and oversight are crafted in a way that undermine confidence and stability for the rest of us is the issue. Folks who haven’t touched crypto—or parts of the economy that shouldn’t be affected—might be impacted if the industry gets its way. You talked about trying to make this more approachable, but here in DC many watching are politicos. I imagine some will feel they’ve already heard it all about Sam Bankman-Fried and other characters covered here. What should they get out of watching this film given that sentiment?
“He couldn’t answer the most basic questions about cryptocurrency.”
BEN: They haven’t seen my interview with Sam—if you watch the interview, which was an hour-long interview cut down to about six minutes, and if you engage intellectually honestly with the period and what was going on then, he was the king of the world when it came to crypto. He was the JP Morgan; he was going to bail out failing crypto companies. He was one of the hundred wealthiest people in the world according to Bloomberg. I sat down with him in a hotel room in July of 2022 and he couldn’t answer the most basic questions about cryptocurrency.
“Give me one thing that it does that’s good for the world.”
BEN: I asked him, “What does it do? Give me one thing that it does that’s good for the world.” He answered remittances—sending money overseas. I had just come from El Salvador, an economy where remittances are about a quarter of the economy, and they had instituted a crypto system to let people use crypto to send remittances. The system was a mess and nobody was using it. It was less than 2% of remittances according to the government’s own figures; it’s now less than 1%. People couldn’t afford to gamble with this crypto system, especially if they’re poor like most Salvadorans—the average salary is $400 a month. They can’t deal with the volatility and all the things that go wrong with crypto.
“I really challenge people who think they know about crypto to sit with this movie”
BEN: Sam couldn’t answer basic questions. I really challenge people who think they know about crypto to sit with this movie and think about what that says about the industry that the person who was nominally in charge of it who’s spending an enormous amount of time on Capitol Hill and making quite a lot of progress spreading his money around outwardly to the Democrats. He gave something like 40 million to Biden in various Democratic groups and candidates, but secretly to the Republicans. He was they charged him with this initially and then they dropped it. But his colleague is is in jail for making illegal political contributions. He was running a hundred million dollar straw donor scheme. So another, you know, half of it to the Democrats over the table and the other half to the Republicans under the table. I think people who who deal with this stuff on a on in a real way on Capitol Hill, whether they’re pro-crypto or not, should engage with this, honestly. It’s not enough to say, “Oh, Sam was always a scammer. Oh, we always knew that. Oh, he just, you know, he’s the one bad out.” Give me a break, man. Give me a break. He’s running one of the largest crypto exchanges that’s ever existed. He was tied in and is tied in to a number of guys who are now in jail in in or sorry who pled guilty to crimes such as Changpeng Zhao, CZ of Binance, who Trump then pardoned in this corrupt deal involving the UAE and an investment of cryptocurrency and Trump’s cryptocoin in exchange for Nvidia chips but also effectively a pardon for CZ. See, anyway, it’s really dirty. And I I just hope that people who who who think they know will take the hour and a half to watch this movie and then sit with it and and say, “Did you know all that?” You know, because I bet you didn’t.
“This is a systemic problem.“
MARK: What you’re saying about sort of the characterization of of Sam Bankman-Fried, I think, is literally what we’ve heard from folks on Capitol Hill, both sort of as a messaging talking point that Sam was just a garden variety fraudster. But also as something that some offices have sort of taken to heart or at least used to rationalize sort of their overly friendly engagement with the industry. And I I think what we have often said is what you said that this is a systemic problem. The funders in the venture capital world that’s that seemingly look the other way when FTX was doing things that were questionable are some of the same people that are funding major crypto platforms today and are some of the biggest backers of the the industry’s political operation.
How should people take action?
BEN: That’s a great question. Well, in terms of personally for the film, if you see it and you like it, tell someone about it. I mean, that it sounds like nothing. It’s everything to an independent. We have no money to market the movie. It’s what it’s the press I can do and it’s the social media I can I can do and maybe a few targeted digital ads via social media. Unfortunately, it’s it’s it’s really all we have is word of mouth. So if you see it and you like it, please please tell someone about it. It means everything in terms of what we can do together.
“We have been losing…but that doesn’t have to be the case.”
BEN: I think we have to be practical about what we can accomplish in the short term and then we have to be really ambitious about what we can accomplish in the longer term in the sense that the tide has obviously gone against people putting responsible limitations on cryptocurrency and coming up with a framework so that the general public is not harmed. We have been losing quite frankly for a variety of reasons. But that doesn’t have to be the case. In the short term, we need to stop the Clarity Act from passing. The Clarity Act is this piece of market structure legislation that would effectively put the crypto industry under the supervision of the CFTC rather than the SEC because the CFTC is the weaker, smaller agency. And this has long been something the crypto industry has wanted. Sam Bakeman-Fried had a bill on Capitol Hill right right around when I was interviewing him that was affectionately called Sam’s bill and it would also have put the crypto industry under CFTC. So that was before he was arrested for running a massive fraudulent scheme.
“We can hold Democrats to account.”
BEN: I think we need to stop the Clarity Act and then we need in 2026 in the midterms and particularly in 28 to start holding not just the Republicans of course you know who unfortunately on this issue are you know it’s sort of the vin diagram between MAGA and crypto supporting Republicans is just a circle of in terms well one circle inside of a large circle But they’re all they’re all in.
The Republicans are are unfortunately that’s where they are. But we can’t affect that. We can hold the Democrats to account. I am particularly frustrated by certain members of the Democratic I’m speaking on my behalf. This is not AFR’s position, obviously, I would imagine.
“I’m angry…I want them to to have to explain that vote.”
BEN: I’m angry at the hundred Democrats who signed the Genius Act, including Leader Schumer, including Leader Jeffries, including my Congressman Dan Goldman in New York’s 10th. I want them to to have to explain that vote. I want to engage with those folks in an in a rigorous but honest way about what exactly do you think you’re doing and how is this going to make it better? Or at least keep it from getting worse. And so I think that’s that that I I would like to come up with a rubric where we could give a grade to individual congress people much like the industry grades them as to, you know, how subservient they are to to the industry’s needs. Gives them an A+ if they really get down on their knees. I think we we should try to come up with that. So, I’ll I’ll work on that with with folks. But in the in the short term, just think about what supporting crypto means in terms of how it reflects the values or lack thereof of your representatives and act accordingly.
MARK: Really appreciate all those thoughts, Ben. And I will say I think one piece of good news is that you know the advocacy work that AFR and a lot of other groups have done on the hill to raise concern about some of these policies where they fall short how they might impact others. That combined with just some of the industry’s recklessness has actually made moving their agenda forward a lot more difficult than than I think they or others anticipated. So, I think that’s a testament to to folks like you raising the alarm and some of the the work that advocates and advocates.
“If you want to support the cause, continue to support AFR.”
BEN: Well, and I thank you. I neglected to mention the obvious, which is if you want to support the cause, you should continue to support AFR in the work that you’re doing because I as much as I appreciate the kind words and I’m sure they’re they’re sincere and you know that has some validity, there’s the outside game and there’s the inside game.
“There’s an outside game and an inside game.“
BEN: The inside game is really where you know I think groups like AFR who who really have their ear to the ground in terms of understanding what’s happening in that small little cluster of powerful people the work you do is invaluable and I’ve been so privileged to be able to meet you and work with you and work with AFR on this topic that we care so much about. So thank you.
Where to get tickets: everyoneislying.com
MARK: Well likewise very much so. One last question then I know we’ll be sharing more information about the film with the folks watching this and and engaged on our platforms but just real quickly where can folks who are listening go to find out more about the film and tell us a little bit more about how the film’s rolling out over the next week or two.
BEN: Sure. everyoneislying.com has all the information that you need. Links to buying tickets. It has the trailer if you want to see the trailer, things like that. We are doing–the independent movies are not in a good place. Documentary is really not a good place. So we are doing it as a road show at least initially. I’m going to be going to as many Q&As as I physically can to engage with folks and spread the word. And then of course in real success we will we have already booked many other screenings. So you know look I would love to see you in person if you’re sitting there watching this you know please you know if it works for your schedule come to the Q&A’s they do sell out they tend to sell out. We sold out three in New York and one in LA already very close in Boston. So that might not be possible for a variety of reasons. I implore you to go see the movie anyway. I know I know you this interacting with this guy. But like that’s how move little movies like this and this is a little movie you know kind of break out. S we’re in New York and LA the first week where it we then expand to Boston and DC the second week. First week is April 17th. Second week is April 24th. Third week is San Francisco and Austin. And then after that we’ll go much much wider and things change as as we’ve been selling out screenings momentum has been building and theaters are now calling us. So it’s very it’s it’s it’s certainly we will add more theaters as as as time goes on. The more people engage, the more people buy tickets, especially beforehand, the more it proves to the other theaters that there’s a real demand for this kind of storytelling and this kind of engagement with the truth. So it’s been quite a road to get this movie out, but that’s that’s another story. So yeah, everyoneislying.com. Go to that, check it out, and hope you enjoy the movie.